Betfair / Voler La Vedette void race

[jasonbourne]

if you had bets voided on the Voler La Vedette race on Dec 28th and are still interested in recovering your winnings from Betfair, please send me a PM

[Shaun]

Why do people still think they are entitled to any money they have not already received, just get over it.

[jasonbourne]

I'm sure you will have lent money to friends or acquaintances before, Shaun, but not yet been paid?
Would this not still make you entitled to the debt?

[Shaun]

The issue has been explained as an error and money before the error has been settled.
The company is based overseas so no legal obligation to do any more than they have.
Unless you traded on the race you have had no loss to claim and if you traded as this is regarded is 2 bets not linked to each other you have no claim on loss.

[Triggerhappy]

much as i dislike the way bf hv acted over the premium charge i dont think it would be a good thing if they were forced to pay out. the vast majority of backers knew it was too gd to be true. theyd prob just up the pc if they were forced to cough up and grab it all back off innocent parties. i backed it small but all laid it on the place and on reflection i was quite fortunate to get the place money refunded.

[jasonbourne]

Trigger, you suggest that "backers knew it was too gd to be true"

So what do you suggest we do with all the layers who lay winners at 100's even 1000 / 1 every day of the week?

Or the backers who back losers at 1.01?

Accept they made a mistake and void their bets?

[Triggerhappy]

and what do you suggest we do jason if this happened a couple of more times and wiped betfair out completely? These sums are nearly all their yearly profits. You cant expect any company to risk being wiped out that easily due to this type of scenario.

We all know mistakes happen on betfair, I saw a race the other day in France where a horse was backed continually at short prices (1.06) even though there was a mile to run. But VLV was different because there was so much money up there.

Any experienced player knew something was up, imo.

It is sad though that punters have so little protection in the UK that we have to accept BF's explanation. If it did turn out to be their in-house bot that fkd up then my opinion would be reversed.

[jasonbourne]

i think the VLV liability was £23m, when you deduct comms and PC, probably nearer £14-15m?

Betfair made £46 million in the 6 months to Oct 2011, so would hardly knock them too hard.

Trigger, I appreciate what you are saying though. They provide a betting exchange model that we all enjoy like none other and it would be of no value to see them disappear, which if this was repeated on a regular basis, might be a small possibility.

But hopefully like any progressive organisation, Betfair acknowledge their mistakes, provide redress for their customers or clients when something goes wrong of their own making, correct and improve their systems and processes and move on. Hopefully the error is never repeated and the risk of future liability is significantly reduced.

Sadly that type of ethos and customer goodwill appears to be lacking at Betfair at present. The VLV case has become a cause celebre in bringing out many other issues let alone this one which Betfair have also yet to address.

I just hope that they see sense in the end like any responsible organisation that is accountable to its customers and deal with this equitably.

[jasonbourne]

a website gone up at http://www.vlvclaim.com for anyone interested in pursuing the matter

at least 20 people and nearly £3m of winners already signed up

[Shaun]

Waste of time as befair have settled the case.

[jasonbourne]

Betfair have "settled" the case?
"Settlement" appears to have passed me by, Shaun. Where and when did Betfair do that, my account is still reading empty......

[jasonbourne]

Shaun, appears you are based in Australia?
Please tell me what do you know of British law, the Unfair Contract Terms Act, Contract Law, negligence and tort etc?
Even your views on Australian law (surely be pretty much same as British?) will be welcome and how they relate to this case.

[Shaun]

Tell me this, after the race was there less in your betfair account than there was before the race?

If you answer no then you have lost nothing so you have nothing to claim.

[jasonbourne]

after the race was there less in your betfair account than there was before the race?

you are correct, the answer to that question is of course, no there wasn't.

But does that make your final statement fact or anywhere near the truth?
(If you answer no then you have lost nothing so you have nothing to claim.)

If you had an extreme case where a bookie accepted all your losers, but magically found a reason to void every winning bet you ever struck..... would you still apply or accept the same logic - that "you have lost nothing".

If you have a card game with a few mates, and one of them has a bad night and ends up owing you $1,000.... do you say, "don't worry about it, I lost nothing, forget the debt"?

Of course the VLV backers lost something. They had a bet accepted in good faith by Betfair (acknowledged by Betfair in the voiding emails they sent out to each customer) on a horse that finished first past the post and was not disqualified by the race day stewards.

Pretty definitive, no? The VLV backers lost their winnings, and many would call it nothing more than institutional or corporate theft.

Betfair's own TC's categorically state that they act as a bookmaker for all non-UK customers. Let alone UK customers, Betfair should at the very least have honoured bets of non-UK customers otherwise they stand in the dock as being rather selective about which TC's they choose to ignore and which to apply whenever there is a dispute.

Betfair have already shown scant regard for their customers in so many different areas that would not be permitted in a competitive exchange market place. At present, they are effectively "unregulated" with the Gambling Commission, IBAS, Gibraltar Gambling Commission etc all proven so far incompetent or unwilling to put a break on Betfair's corporate authority and excess.

If you think this should go on, fine, be my guest. But someone sooner or later has to bring Betfair to book and remind them that they cannot continue to treat their customers and clients so badly.

[2020vision]

Surely if a bet is made at " mistaken & exaggerated" odds then common sense should prevail?

My humble opinion is that Betfair should have paid out but only at the average odds available
at places where the real odds were not in error? The bets were undoubtedly allowed at odds in error.

But as I have said before - Betfair are a law unto themselves and will do exactly as they
please with their customers. As long as the majority of customers are unaffected nothing will change.

All the best - Michael